Global Warming

July 20, 2007 / by robert2734

My blog, my thoughts, my opinions, my comments. I'm am not going to present any scientific evidence. I am not going to try to convince you of anything. I am not going to make a case, one way or another.

Let me tell you where I stand so you can judge my biases. I am personally agnostic as to whether the one degree rise in temperature in the 20th century was do to the 40% increase in CO2 since the dawn of the industrial revolution or not. The noise to signal ratio is too high to draw any conclusions. When following heat flows around the earth and into space, the effect of CO2 is a small fish in a big pond. The AGW advocates say CO2 is the only change, all else being constant. And they could well be right. For a scientific proof, they must exclude all other possibilities to the high degree of precision necessary. That's a tough task.

The earth's climate has ranged from completely coverred with ice in the Precambian to having no icecaps at all in th Jurassic. Just looking at the last half a million years, the ice ages have come and receded four times. Who says climate is stable? The earth seems quite capable of making quite dramatic changes in climate in a short time on her own inclination, at least in my view.

I hate coal. Coal particles kill one to ten thousand people a year in this country. Causes acid rain. It is a major source of mercury and other heavy metals. I have no expertise on the biological effect of parts per billion of mercury but just note coal is a major contributor. Coal kill about 10,000 coal miners a year in China and maybe a million Chinese. And this doesn't count black lung and other chronic diseases.

Oil and natural gas is running out whether AGW is true or not. The only choice we have that I see is whether to mine the tar sands and other such solid hydrocarbons. This stuff is such low grade ore that I think going after it is a sign of desperation. It takes almost as much energy to get at this stuff, then it returns. I got solar panels on my roof. I think the hydrocarbon era is coming to an end, like it or not.

The Duke of Wellington after Waterloo,"Nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won". There is one thing that scares me more than the thought that AGW is true. And that is AGW is false. The Earth is stirring all on her own, on her own agenda, and for her own reasons. And we are helpless passengers that can do nothing.

"I want to die calmly in my sleep like grandpa. Not screaming in panic like his passengers."

Seems to me like we are going over a cliff. And arguing about whether or not we are driving.

10 comments on Global Warming

  • johnlance said 1 years ago
    Science is art. We tend to give them more credit than is due. The more I read the more I see that scientific findings written in stone were found to be totally incorrect. A true scientist continues to question. Yes we have some theories that have proven themselves such as gravity but there is a lot that is still unknown. As for global warming there is quite a body of good evidence that seems to indicate it is true. Anything coming from the Oil and Coal industries has to be looked at with a mindset of this is not unbiased information contradicting the evidence of global warming.
  • robert2734 said 1 years ago
    It's bad enough when scientists argue among themselves over proton decay or something like that which has no real world value for at least another century. Ever see the Law and Order episode on that? What's worse is when an issue gets politicized. Nobody is telling the truth, everybody has an agenda, and there are big big bucks on the line. Science is tough enough when people are trying to get it right. I can post some links showing stuff coming from NOAA is not unbiased information either. That doesn't mean AGW is *false* but when the underlying data is impeachable, I'm not going to give anything any credence. The scientist say they mathematically masturbate the data to adjust for the well known city heat island effect. I bet they adjust the data for NOAA deliberately blowing car exhaust and air conditioner heat exhaust on the thermometers of record. How would they know what to subtract?
  • bradpalaka said 1 years ago
    The IPCC's "Climate change 2001 - Synthesis report" includes a graphic that shows the radiative forcing due to a variety of factors, including error bars for each. The y-axis is radiative forcing in W/m2, not temperature directly. For some of the factors the SNR is quite large, but the effects of those terms is relatively small. The effect of greenhouse gases dominates and has fairly well-understood error bars.

    http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics/2001syr/large/06.01.jpg

    It is accepted that the Earth's climate is variable. Scientists are getting a handle on what global warming and cooling components are human caused and what are part of the normal cycle. The Earth's biosphere is increasingly modified by human activities. We are a plague on the biosphere, gobbling up resources and leaving behind pollution in the sea, land, and air. Can the human population survive the type of changes (including climate change) that are occurring? If we are driving something that will lead to our destruction, it would be useful if we understood that and knew how (and implemented) something to curb it.
  • robert2734 said 1 years ago
    Hi Brad. Thank's for the link. I'm not argueing AGW is false and i'm certainly not argueing the Earth's climate doesn't change. The forcing of all greenhouse gases is 2 W/m^2 of which CO2 is half of that. The total solar irradiation is 1300 W/m^2. That's what I mean by small effect in a big pond. The added irradiance doesn't necessarily raise the temperature because it could be in a negative feedback loop. But it could be in a positive feedback loop and we are going off a cliff. I try to show some humility in the face of nature.

    If we are driving something that will lead to our destruction, it would be useful if we understood that and knew how (and implemented) something to curb it.

    If. If we understood. Let's take for example something better understood and incontrovertible. The world is running out of giant fields of light sweet crude. Neither heavy crudes nor biofuels will maintain our current standard of living. I still can't break through the clutter and get people to understand. I think our fundamental problem is that the population is science illiterate. They read your essay and they read Exxon's essay and assign them equal weight. Worse, they read con artists who can make cars run on water.

    I'm trying to promote solar power and this field has historically been so saturated with con artists, sloppy contractors, and companies rent seeking the government, that it is hard to educate the general public that things are different now.
  • bradpalaka said 1 years ago
    I meant "if we understood that" in the sense of the details of what we are doing. The current climate models generally agree on what is happening. The details are still being worked out, but the main results are the same.
  • robert2734 said 1 years ago
    Climate models agree? All the climate professors go to the same conferences and impress their friends with their latest C++ code. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing to see here.
  • bradpalaka said 1 years ago
    The correctness of a model depends on its fit to the data. Again, the sections of the 2001 IPCC report summarize the improvements in climate models over the years:

    http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics/2001wg1/large/11.02.jpg

    and compares the consensus (hindcast) modeling results to the data:

    http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics/2001syr/large/05.18.jpg

    As the former shows, the latest research is in aerosol interactions and understanding the relative carbon fluxes, especially associated with vegetation. The bulk features of the climate data record are modeled already, so the hindcasting works fairly well. The "Keeling Curve" has been added to since 1958, so CO2 has been looked at for quite a while. The small wiggles in the curve are still under investigation.

    The radiative forcing chart includes an indicator of the confidence in the error bars and level of understanding across the bottom. The full interactions of aerosols are one of the unknowns that limit the ability to forecast climate. It's a difficult problem, but recent improvements in instruments have allowed better measurements of local aerosol radiative forcing and forcing efficiency and regional aerosol radiative forcing estimates from satellite and airborne platforms, for example. It's not just tweaking some Fortran code but also including new data.
  • robert2734 said 1 years ago
    With the benefit of hindcasting we know stock market performance is very sensitive to whether an original NFL team wins the superbowl. Deduction is when you change the data to fit the model and induction is when you change the model to fit the data.

    New data from the same government agency that blows car exhaust on their thermometers and claim that it is getting warmer?
  • bradpalaka said 1 years ago
    Some studies are funded through NOAA, but other agencies in the US have also funded such studies, like the Department of Energy's Atmospheric Science Program or NASA's Earth Science Program with the old TARFOX project as well as more recent projects (INTEX-NA and B). Researchers in this field are from universities and their (and government) research centers and are coast to coast: Scripps Institution of Oceanography; Brookhaven National Laboratory; California Institute of Technology; Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics, University of Colorado; etc. Groups in other countries are also involved from Max Planck Institute of Meteorology, Germany and Hadley Centre for Climate Change, UK, for example. The IPCC that I have mentioned a few times is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, not a US-only panel. It was established by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP). The point is that climate research is a multinational and multi-agency endeavor.

    I'm done.
  • robert2734 said 1 years ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record

    Thanks Brad for discussing the science. I don't doubt the Earth is getting warming. I think we only disagree on what "beyond a reasonable doubt" means and degree of skepticism. I hate when issues get politicized. My position is that anthromorphic global warming is "not proven" (maybe it is true) and we have good reason not to burn high polluting coal or expensive imported fossil fluids anyways.

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